Shadowgirls

This thread/topic concernes the intermission starting from "Memory Lane part One"

You know DRey. Imagine if your art was as good back then as it is now. That'd just mean you've had zero artistic growth in the last 9 years and I think you made a good comment in your Deviant Art journal once about artists who don't grow.

Are your old efforts crap? Yeah, for you now they are but they show one hell of a progression and growth in your abilities and what you need to think when you look at them isn't "Damn I was crap" but rather "Damn I've gotten a hell of a lot better".

Thanks for sharing the journey to Shadowgirls with us. I'm looking forward to the rest.

You migth as well change the title. The entire sequence for the next two weeks is called Memory Lane. Wednesday is Memory Lane II.

And I admit, I have gotten better. And I'm sure in ten years I'll look back on this and cringe as well. Most artists do that... It keeps our egos in check.

Damn! too late. I've already linked it to the comic page (and changing the title seems to change the link). But I usually mention the name of the first page in the sequence/scene *shrug*.

I don't know about you guys, but I'm really enjoying this sequence. The ideas keep getting better and better, and I really would have read something like this.

Just so long as "Bud" didn't write it.

Yeah, There's a few good concepts and Ideas in there.

Bud's stuff reminds me a lot about some of the extremes in Elfen Lied. The one reason I could keep through Elfen Lied, however, was that the core of the story was still fasinating and captivating. Sure it tore off limbs whenever it could and had very strong sexual themes (although no actual sex), but at the heart of it the core of the story survived from start to finish and even in many of those extreme scenes. I can shrug off that stuff, not give a damn and keep reading as long as a story has a great core to it and it's characters and stays true to those cores.

But it sounds like Bud's core story was the rape and the gore it's self. I mean... Struth! I know there are audiences out there for that stuff but... Man alive!

The funny thing is... "Bud's" version wasn't all that gory, save for that last panel shot of poor mutilated Stephanie. Even the raping didn't happen on camera, but off screen. But that didn't make it any better. The character Marica is someone who was one of my oldest characters, pre-dating everything here. So I'm sort of protective over her. It's just was poorly written, and there was things he just didn't get. (Seriously that bit of the religion bashing he put into the script... It wasn't called for, it wasn't necessary, it was just there to be obnoxious.)

I later found out through a friend, it's not that he did it to be a dick... More that he was just an idiot. My friend Jason Moser has a book, which is like a futuristic conspiracy series taking place at the end of the century. Well, "Bud" had written a story for his comic. The character in said script was supposed to be a mute. She was actually born with no vocal chords. So Bud's script has her running around, making a bunch of jokes as she attempts a presidential assassination... Of George Bush Jr. and Hillary Clinton. (Who were in bed together.)

Now, I'm not going to try and guess the future here... Buuuuuuut I'm pretty sure that not only will those two be long gone by then, but in a comic series involving nanotech viral outbreaks, regardless of your political leanings... George W. Bush jokes just seem kinda short sighted. To put it mildly.

Jason rejected the script and the guy acted like he got kicked in the balls. Apparently, he's a social invalid.

Go figure.

I do got plans for Marica though.

Will she have her wings and Morrigan archtype together with bisexual tendencies? Or has she developed to a completely different character now? Are we looking at her in the Shadowgirls series it's self or with her own series but in the Mythmakers Universe? Heck, she could show up with RevDevil for all we know.

Also, I just have to say, the speech on that second page of Cursed is absolute WIN. I could almost see that inside the cover of each Shadowgirls issue, or on the back together with the normal blurb. Makes me think back to Issue # 5's cover with Lindsey spray painting the wall.

The phrase Monsters Exist has been with me for like... God... I have no idea, and I have no idea where I thought/stole it from.

As far as Marica goes... Oh what the hell. It's Christmas.

Marica will be a new character. Just like how Charon evolved, Miss Kitamer did too. She probably will not be showing up in Shadowgirls (though Revolver Devil might) and it'll be it's own series. But I'm still working out the details of it with the artist I'll be working on it with. It WILL be in the Mythmakers universe (as she's based out of Miskatonic University's Library Department) and it will not be a horror comic. More of an adventure series.

If Shadowgirls deals with the H.P. Lovecraft Mythos... The Phenomenauts will deal with the Edgar Rice Burroughs mythos.

Yes. I'm having a Martian show up.

Charles wrote:Bud's stuff reminds me a lot about some of the extremes in Elfen Lied. The one reason I could keep through Elfen Lied, however, was that the core of the story was still fasinating and captivating. Sure it tore off limbs whenever it could and had very strong sexual themes (although no actual sex), but at the heart of it the core of the story survived from start to finish and even in many of those extreme scenes. I can shrug off that stuff, not give a damn and keep reading as long as a story has a great core to it and it's characters and stays true to those cores.

I watched the series, and I agree with you on the story. I found it to be intriguing and the drama was nicely done (even though it almost matched "This Ugly Yet Beautiful World" in many ways, sans the wackiness of the comedy). But I do think it was overly bloody (and a bit too much nudity), and even though we only got snippits of what happened to that orphan girl, it was still...yowza.

But it sounds like Bud's core story was the rape and the gore it's self. I mean... Struth! I know there are audiences out there for that stuff but... Man alive!

What really puts the question mark in my speech bubble is when people excuse it as being in some way "true-to-life", like because it's happened in reality, then it's placement in the entertainment media is automatically justified (regardless if it's misplaced in a certain story or just written like crap). I remember being in a chat room many years ago talking about Kevin Smith (this was back when I actually liked his movies). I said that I thought his films were over-sexed, and some one blasts back at me "Sex is a part of life!"

But then...wearing clothes is a part of life. Celibacy is part of SOME people's lives (...some more than others...). Being a decent human being is part of life. Being nice...well, I digress.

MachSabre wrote:The character Marica is someone who was one of my oldest characters, pre-dating everything here. So I'm sort of protective over her.

I've got a couple characters like that (one of them in a fanfiction series). I had plans to do this or that, but couldn't bring myself to do that to them. Sort of like the would-be chopping in my novel, but that was more about the character's moral code than anything else.

...but in a comic series involving nanotech viral outbreaks, regardless of your political leanings... George W. Bush jokes just seem kinda short sighted. To put it mildly.

Sounds like he's perfect for Comedy Central. HII-OOOOOOH!

Sporkbot wrote:I watched the series, and I agree with you on the story. I found it to be intriguing and the drama was nicely done (even though it almost matched "This Ugly Yet Beautiful World" in many ways, sans the wackiness of the comedy). But I do think it was overly bloody (and a bit too much nudity), and even though we only got snippits of what happened to that orphan girl, it was still...yowza.

Yeah, I read the manga first and then watched the series. The series was spot on to the manga until about epidsode 11 (I think they had to end it there).

They gave some explaination to the gore thing, that they did it like a child would the wings of a dragonfly, etc. And I don't think the stuff with the orphan girl was too bad 'cos horrible as it was it added to story. But yeah, I think there's a lot of people out there who think they need to show shocking stuff to attract people, and I tend to think that Elfen Lied had a good enough core story, message and characters not to require it.

On the other hand, I think it can be also be used well. Flipside had/has a canibal and just to put the audience in perspective of what this canibal was doing, the artist/writer had the hero stumble upon her finishing the remains of a child's leg... The forum's went crazy!

machsabre wrote:Marica will be a new character. Just like how Charon evolved, Miss Kitamer did too. She probably will not be showing up in Shadowgirls (though Revolver Devil might) and it'll be it's own series. But I'm still working out the details of it with the artist I'll be working on it with. It WILL be in the Mythmakers universe (as she's based out of Miskatonic University's Library Department) and it will not be a horror comic. More of an adventure series.

If Shadowgirls deals with the H.P. Lovecraft Mythos... The Phenomenauts will deal with the Edgar Rice Burroughs mythos.

Yes. I'm having a Martian show up.

Librarians seem to see far more action than you'd think. Seriously, you think you're picking a safe job and then you stumble upon the occult section and BOOM you're an orangatang... Bloody dangerous occupation.

Phenomenauts? Now there's a name that speaks volumes about their likely occupation.

I like the thought of an adventure story. Sounds fun.

Charles wrote:Yeah, I read the manga first and then watched the series. The series was spot on to the manga until about epidsode 11 (I think they had to end it there).

According to TV.com, there's one more episode after "Lucy's Last Stand", where Nana tries adjusting to a normal life. However, Anime Network OnDemand didn't offer it as an option.

They gave some explaination to the gore thing, that they did it like a child would the wings of a dragonfly, etc. And I don't think the stuff with the orphan girl was too bad 'cos horrible as it was it added to story.

Hm. I suppose the dragonfly analogy it makes sense, considering how they were raised/treated.

But yeah, I think there's a lot of people out there who think they need to show shocking stuff to attract people, and I tend to think that Elfen Lied had a good enough core story, message and characters not to require it.

True enough. And as I mentioned before, the excuses used for them are paltry. I mean, I can understand wanting your stuff to be noticed. My books been out for nearly three months and since I haven't gotten any checks, I don't know if anyone's buying it. But for the sake of personal creative integrity, I wouldn't go for the "make people vomit and hate me" tactic.

On the other hand, I think it can be also be used well. Flipside had/has a canibal and just to put the audience in perspective of what this canibal was doing, the artist/writer had the hero stumble upon her finishing the remains of a child's leg... The forum's went crazy!

I think the artist's style helps detract from a lot of the graphic depictions. Blood is a lot less intense (for me) when it's in black and white. And I think I barely noticed the leg at the time (either I couldn't tell it was a child's leg or it goes to show how desensitized I've become). Though I think I winced a bit when Maytag plucked off her own finger (something I had one character do to another in my fan-fic series...but it's okay, because they're robots).

The extra episode you're talking about with Elfen Lied is often called 10.5 as it was a bonus episode that was ment to occur between 10 and 11. It's not in the comic, but I think it was a good fun episode that focused a lot more on the funny sides of Elfen Lied and really helped build the main characters in a much nicer light.

I just gotta say that you're a braver man than I am to bare your life and feelings to the internet like you have in the last few updates. That just takes absolute guts mate, but I guess baring many of these characters you've dreamed up and kept for years, out for possible criticisim and distortion by a vast audience takes a lot of the same strength.

Again, I can only thank you for sharing this journey with us and I'm looking forward to the remaining phase/s of shadowgirls and/or Charon before they became what they are today.

I've learned over the years that there's nothing anyone can say to me that is any worse than I've said to myself.

I did skip some stuff, like the Max Pneumatic stuff, mainly because... Well, other than the single mom aspect, it has nothing to do with SG. But it was a project I was working on in the meantime. Some of the art evolution can still be seen in those.

Heh. The little bits of Max I've seen still make me think "hell yeah!"... I must have something for women who kick arse.

I get the impression she's from some future timeline considering a couple of the backgrounds I've seen her displayed in. It'll be interesting to see what her background is with needing that giant glove to kick arse. Does she fight monsters, aliens or just bad guys?

I'm just trying to imagine Max, RevDevil and Charon all in one comic together... Thats the stuff that monsters have nightmares about *lol*

Hopefully you'll get a chance to bring her and all the others out in future projects.

EDIT: DAMMIT! posted with Fides again. This is Charles.

Max was always more of a Adventurer type. Monsters, aliens, bad guys... All sorts. It was sort of like Ghost in the Shell... If written by a brain damaged WWE fan. There are a lot of characters I'm still qute fond of from my past... And they get worked into current day stuff. The Bloodwatch symbol was actually a tattoo that one of my oldest characters actually possessed. As you saw on Wednesday, the Balthazar character carries a lot of simialrities to the Shadowchild. But here's the funny one:

When D.Rod first sent me the script for Issue One, I had thought Jack was Sawyer and he just changed the first name. I didn't realize that he had just made up a new character. So I used what would have been Sawyer's character design on Jack... Thinking he was the other character. Det. Patrick Sawyer started off as John McSawyer. We got rid of the "Mc" because we already had a McKay. And the name John got changed because had a Jack already and it was similar. McSawyer can be traced back to way earlier concepts. In his earliest concept... Well, Jack's visuals is essentially... An idealized me. (Minus a lot of weight and add on a lot of muscle.)

You all can laugh now.